New Brahms Lieder Cycle

[BrahmsGuides]

Originally Posted by haydnguy

To clarify, just because Graham Johnson doesn't do it to suit you means nothing. He arranges pieces by other things like poet, etc.

Yeah, I just prefer the composer's own arrangement. I'm weird that way in preferring what the composer says to do. That's one reason i utterly DESPISE Yuja Wang's hacked-up Paganini Variations, no matter how much people like to salivate over that recording.

[haydnguy]

Originally Posted by BrahmsGuides

Yeah, I just prefer the composer's own arrangement. I'm weird that way in preferring what the composer says to do. That's one reason i utterly DESPISE Yuja Wang's hacked-up Paganini Variations, no matter how much people like to salivate over that recording.

I was looking through my collection last night and I have the first 4 CD's in the CPO series. I remember (it's still on here somewhere) that I commented about the first one that I didn't think that Juliane Banse did a very good job but then I read some really good things about her so I will have to go back and listen again. That was 2 years ago too so my perceptions may have changed.

[Despina41]

What was Brahms's view on arrangements and stuff? Did he do different editions of songs? I know there's an "easy" edition of the op. 39 waltzes...

[haydnguy]

Would anyone be interested in buying the first 4 CD's of the Brahms CPO cycle. (I actually have two copies of the 4th. One is still in the original packaging.) Probably needs to be in the U.S. for shipping cost reasons.

[BrahmsGuides]

Originally Posted by Despina41

What was Brahms's view on arrangements and stuff? Did he do different editions of songs? I know there's an "easy" edition of the op. 39 waltzes...

He was pretty liberal and certainly sanctioned transpositions of the songs for different voice types. He also arranged many of his own orchestral and chamber works for piano duet or two pianos. There was a lot of room with him. Still, I doubt he would have been happy with Yuja Wang and Arturo Michelangeli hacking up the Paganini Variations and cutting off the second finale, putting the first one in its place.

[BrahmsGuides]

Originally Posted by haydnguy

Would anyone be interested in buying the first 4 CD's of the Brahms CPO cycle. (I actually have two copies of the 4th. One is still in the original packaging.) Probably needs to be in the U.S. for shipping cost reasons.

So you don't want to keep them? I might be interested. Give me a couple of days. I had only listened to library copies.

[haydnguy]

No, I don't want to keep them. Sure anytime.

[Despina41]

Originally Posted by BrahmsGuides

He was pretty liberal and certainly sanctioned transpositions of the songs for different voice types. He also arranged many of his own orchestral and chamber works for piano duet or two pianos. There was a lot of room with him. Still, I doubt he would have been happy with Yuja Wang and Arturo Michelangeli hacking up the Paganini Variations and cutting off the second finale, putting the first one in its place.

Wellllllllllllllllllllll....hmm, I'm not so sure about that. (the first book ending is better imho) - ahem, I mean, didn't he just call them "etudes"? Does that imply that they might be used as studies, and not even played as a whole set? (or was he just being facetious to taunt Tausig?) Maybe compare to Handel Variations, which always feels like more of a polished "work" to me. I don't know-- what do you think?

[Despina41]

While I'm thinking about it, my favorite part of the Paganini Variations is the ending of part 1 and the beginning of part 2. You get through this whole set of virtuouso Sturm-und-Drang fireworks, open book two, and what do you get?




No rest for the weary! I laugh every time. Given JB's usual sense of structure and his knack for opening and winding down, this really does feel like you start up in medias res!

[BrahmsGuides]

Originally Posted by Despina41

While I'm thinking about it, my favorite part of the Paganini Variations is the ending of part 1 and the beginning of part 2. You get through this whole set of virtuouso Sturm-und-Drang fireworks, open book two, and what do you get?




No rest for the weary! I laugh every time. Given JB's usual sense of structure and his knack for opening and winding down, this really does feel like you start up in medias res!

That's because the two books are really two separate works. Breitkopf even gave them two different plate numbers, which is only otherwise true for the opus numbers 21, 51, 93, and 120, which unambiguously contain two separate "works." The planning and architecture of the ordering in each book is very careful. The published order was even revised from a manuscript copy. The two finales are evidence that he meant for them to be performed as sets. You can put both sets on the same program, but the best way to do it is the way that Olga Kern does, with applause and a pause after the first book. You should also play the theme again before Book II (as published)--that lessens the "in media res" effect.

Wang hacks up the order so much that the carefully reserved F major in Variation 12 of Book II now has more variations following it than it should. This weakens the effect of the F major.

Brahms actually told a pianist to play through Book I and that if the audience applauded and liked it, then he should sit down and continue with Book II!