Chant of all sorts

[Neumerologist]

Originally Posted by Roehre

Hildegard's music cannot be gregorian plain chant or anything similar to that, as we know the composer's name, which by definition rules out gregorian, ambrosian let alone older ways of musically expressing faith.
But be aware that this does not mean that there aren't any similarities - at least at superficially listening. But for a start Hildegard's works are meant for female voices, Gregorian chant and the like by definition for male ones.

Plain chant, gregorian, ambrosian are by definition melodies only, without any countermelodies, all the voices sing the same melody.
It is thought that polyphony (i.e. more than one melody, or chords formed independently from the main melody) did develop from plainchant singing with a drone bass, as i.e. can be heard in the Templar's antiphon which Sonatina posted.

Interesting. So is plainchant merely plainchant? Or is there such thing as say 'gregorian' plainchant or 'ambrosian' plainchant?

[Roehre]

Originally Posted by Neumerologist

Interesting. So is plainchant merely plainchant? Or is there such thing as say 'gregorian' plainchant or 'ambrosian' plainchant?

There is gregorian plainchant as well as ambrosian plainchant, but I;m afraid at the moment I cannot explain you clairly the difference .

[Neumerologist]

Leonin: Viderunt Omnes (c.1170)

Perotin: Viderunt Omnes (c.1198)

[Neumerologist]

Originally Posted by Roehre

There is gregorian plainchant as well as ambrosian plainchant, but I;m afraid at the moment I cannot explain you clairly the difference .

I see. Since Hildegard's obviously has a composer and seems to have the characteristics of plainchant is it in some ways an anomaly or is it merely plainchant?

[Roehre]

Originally Posted by Neumerologist

I see. Since Hildegard's obviously has a composer and seems to have the characteristics of plainchant is it in some ways an anomaly or is it merely plainchant?

Yes. It has some characteristics of plain chant, but contrary to plain chant uses sometimes unusual modes ("old fashioned" keys, if you like, certainly also caused by the higher tessitura of the music), and many texts which were "out-of-bound" for gregorian and/or ambrosian plain chant.

The best part of Hildegard's output cannot be applied in "standard" Mass-formulae. Plain chant by definition is supposed to do this.

[Neumerologist]

Originally Posted by Roehre

Yes. It has some characteristics of plain chant, but contrary to plain chant uses sometimes unusual modes ("old fashioned" keys, if you like, certainly also caused by the higher tessitura of the music), and many texts which were "out-of-bound" for gregorian and/or ambrosian plain chant.

The best part of Hildegard's output cannot be applied in "standard" Mass-formulae. Plain chant by definition is supposed to do this.

This is quite interesting. Thanks.

[haydnguy]

Originally Posted by Neumerologist

I have that one Neumerologist. You know, we need micrologus in this discussion!!!

[Neumerologist]

Originally Posted by haydnguy

I have that one Neumerologist.

Are you an Emma Kirkby lover too? There is something really special about this album.

Does anybody know anything about the drones they are singing over? Are they a hurdy gurdy type of instrument?

Originally Posted by haydnguy

You know, we need micrologus in this discussion!!!

Hope micrologus decides to partake!

[Sonatina]

Originally Posted by haydnguy

I have that one Neumerologist. You know, we need micrologus in this discussion!!!

A wonderful recording! After listening for a while it creates a very pure and ethereal world that becomes hypnotic.


Here is a great site with Hildergar von Bingen music and downloads
http://www.oxfordgirlschoir.co.uk/hildegard.html

[micrologus]

Originally Posted by Neumerologist

I think this is old Roman. Definitely sounds more exotic to my ear as well...the ornaments and emphasis in the modes used with the text definitely sound reminiscent of pre-western music possibly Judaic or Islamic vocal practices originating in and around the fertile crescent? Don't know enough about this to confirm though...

YES! This is old Roman!