Beethoven's "Hammerklavier"

[Noseeum]

Originally Posted by James C. Fretz

[...]
Of the two, Beethoven always seemed the defiant, unrepentant one.

I agree - except that I think the defiance evolved into confident acceptance late in life. Even aside from the late sonatas and string quartets, which reflect confidence in faith, the Diabelli's are the work of a man supremely confident in himself.

[Note: these are opinions, not revelations.]

[Sonatina]

I would say , resignation, rather than acceptance in later life, because I think he was profoundly affected as most people were by the millions that were killed in Napoleon's wars, and he was intelligent enough to see that it was all pointless. Because his religious faith wasn't strong enough, he was very much a soul cast adrift in the later years of his life. He knew that the old world had gone , but his republican principles took a terrible hammering during the Napoleonic wars, and I sometimes get the impression that he was not entirely happy with himself.

[Noseeum]

I would say that my analysis is correct, and yours is wrong.

Does this mean that shotguns at 20 paces is inevitable?

[Quijote]

I would say that both your analyses are anything but. They are of course entirely justifiable personal receptions of the work.

[Despina41]

I too would like to register my approval of subjective interpretations of late Beethoven. It is not my business to tell you how to interpret this fascinating repertoire, simply to have you know that I condone your attempts to do so.
Carry on, carry on, you have my blessing!

[Noseeum]

Originally Posted by Despina41

I too would like to register my approval of subjective interpretations of late Beethoven. It is not my business to tell you how to interpret this fascinating repertoire, simply to have you know that I condone your attempts to do so.
Carry on, carry on, you have my blessing!

Thank you very much. Without your approval, life would be meaningless. BTW I have not attempted to interpret late Beethoven, only described my reactions after listening. For all I know, the guy was thinking about how good the first of the evening's beers was going to taste (a subject worthy of deep contemplation).

[Tarantella]

I've been listening to quite a few performances of the "Hammerklavier" because of the current Sydney International Piano competition. The younger musicians seem to fly through first two movements of the work and I do hear some odd rhythms and emphasis in certain passages where I wouldn't expect this. ("Competitors" range from 18 to 30 years of age.) What this experience has taught me is that I'm obviously wedded to specific performances of the work and I know how I want it played. And the discussions after each performance are revealing too, conducted as they are by a concert pianist.

I think we 'own' our own interpretations and performances of this magnificent work and, for me, it IS personal: there's a direct connection between me and Beethoven.

[Quijote]

Originally Posted by Despina41

I too would like to register my approval of subjective interpretations of late Beethoven. It is not my business to tell you how to interpret this fascinating repertoire, simply to have you know that I condone your attempts to do so.
Carry on, carry on, you have my blessing!

That is certainly a relief to read, Despina41.
I cannot for the moment make more comment on the Hammerklavier, but would instead to do so for Beethoven's Sonata 30, Op. 109.
Whilst still on holiday (no longer in Lago di Garda, now in Altrip, Germany), this is a work I cannot escape, for the life of me.
I am not able for an instant to conjure up Olympian feelings of struggle or other such gushings, but can't deny that - for this time, at least - I find a certain 'eroticism' bordering on the burlesque, especially in the last movement. I don't have access to a score (and so can't quote precise bar numbers), but there are passages where I 'see' LvB chasing his belovèd around the sofa, trousers around his ankles, tripping up, beseeching... Well, I hear this movement as a sort of seduction with final gratification, ending with a post coital stubbing out of a cigarette.

[Noseeum]

Whatever churns your butter, guy.

[Quijote]

Originally Posted by Noseeum

Whatever churns your butter, guy.

Well, quite. So, we are on talking terms again, and so much the better.
Still, my 'view' of this work may well differ from yours. That said, on a different day, in a different mood, after a good or bad meal, after a bad or good consultation with my banker ... this may change.