Those Symphonies

[Tarantella]

Originally Posted by Despina41

So as everyone knows, Brahms delayed a long time in writing his first symphony. Schumann had nudged him toward the genre in the early 1850s, but he wussed out and turned his first "symphonic" attempt into a piano concerto. That didn't actually fool the critics, half of whom (the friendly ones at least) decided it was basically a symphony anyway.


Anyway, I guess everyone here knows the 4 Symphonies by Brahms - and if you dont, let me give you my (entirely subjective) 30-second introduction to all four:

No. 1, C minor, op. 68: "ROAR I can write a Symphony in C! I am the true heir of Beethoven!"

No. 2, D major, op. 73: "How I learned to stop worrying and love the sunshine."

No. 3, F major, op. 90: "Heroic Mode time!!"

No. 4, E minor, op. 98: "Formalism is fun, and by 'fun,' I mean 'tragic.'"


Anyway, all I would like to know is:

what are your preferred recordings?


I'm afraid I'm a little out of date and have some old but solid recording with Sawallisch and Vienna. And I hate to confess, but I actually enjoy listening to the four-hand-piano arrangements: I find Brahms to be like Bach in that it works just as well in keyboard arrangement as with full orchestra; in fact, you can hear some things must better in the piano versions....(!)

Ahem, so I know Norrington has been talking about Brahms symphonies lately, and I still haven't but sampled the Alsop recordings (seem a little bland). But what do you guys think?

Are there any MUST-HAVE recordings?

By the way, this is an EXCELLENT "essay" on the four symphonies! A person of taste, quite obviously!!

[Tarantella]

Once again I rise from my attempts at sleep - it's 11.15pm - with I-Pod trained on Brahms 4th Symphony. It's the Kleiber/VPO version. (The Adonis of the Antipodes who sleeps next to me is blissfully unaware!!) This symphony - the first movement, particularly the last 2 minutes: I was thinking of a high-powered car driving flat out up a hill in 3rd, then 4th gear. It reaches the top and the road becomes flat and the car goes into over-drive - wind blows the hair from the BMW convertible and the view is overwhelming up there on the top of the hill. This is Brahms' climactic ending of the first movement. Sheer exhilaration!! No Tour de France for this baby tonight!!

I remember being in the Musikverein last year and, you know, the statue of Brahms sits there over the road in Ressel Park faced towards the building where Brahms was once a conductor and music director. Forever he sits there, staring and never hearing a note of his music - I must listen for him.

BC members who are Brahms enthusiasts will understand all!! I know I've been hard, in the past, on Bruckner enthusiasts and I must re-cant because if they feel half the love I do for Brahms they're very lucky indeed. xxx

[Scott Good]

Originally Posted by Tarantella

for THE BEST Brahms Symphony.

Ha!

I remember giving a talk about Brahms' Symphony #1 a few years ago - I started by saying that although there were many ways to divide people into groups - men-women, left-right, gay-straight etc etc, that I felt there was one that truly mattered:

those who believe Brahms 1 is the best, and those that don't!

I'm in the first group.

That said, I adore them all. Probably the principal reason (aside from the most epic opening one could ever imagine) is that it was the first Symphony that I ever heard. I was 13, and just starting to study classical music. My teacher of trombone was encouraging me to study "orchestral excerpts" - these are the snippets of trombone parts in major orchestral works - it was a away to learn a variety of technique, while getting to know the cannon. My first assignment was Brahms 1 - so, I dutifully got a "tape" and put it in my IPo...o wait, walkman, and went home for a listen.

I'll never forget - it was a sunny September day - probably 19 degrees - gorgeous light streaming through the window - I was "all about" the Sex Pistols and Dead Kenedys at that time, so the volume was cranked. I put the symphony on...

OMG!!!!!! I couldn't believe how incredible the music was - I didn't have the foggiest idea that music could even be that good. And the roaring timpani certainly satiated my "hard rock" tendencies.

Actually, it took at least 10 listens before I could let the tape run past the opening - like a drug addict, I needed that timpani, and the soaring violins many times before I would accept any pianissimos.

Funny, but I started getting frustrated in that "where were the trombone parts?" What I learned, which would become my reality later in life, that the bones were tacet for the first 3 movements! Arg...I love playing trombone, but this part kinda sucks.

Scott

[Despina41]

Originally Posted by Scott Good

Ha!

I remember giving a talk about Brahms' Symphony #1 a few years ago - I started by saying that although there were many ways to divide people into groups - men-women, left-right, gay-straight etc etc, that I felt there was one that truly mattered:

those who believe Brahms 1 is the best, and those that don't!

I'm in the first group.

That said, I adore them all. Probably the principal reason (aside from the most epic opening one could ever imagine) is that it was the first Symphony that I ever heard. I was 13, and just starting to study classical music. My teacher of trombone was encouraging me to study "orchestral excerpts" - these are the snippets of trombone parts in major orchestral works - it was a away to learn a variety of technique, while getting to know the cannon. My first assignment was Brahms 1 - so, I dutifully got a "tape" and put it in my IPo...o wait, walkman, and went home for a listen.

I'll never forget - it was a sunny September day - probably 19 degrees - gorgeous light streaming through the window - I was "all about" the Sex Pistols and Dead Kenedys at that time, so the volume was cranked. I put the symphony on...

OMG!!!!!! I couldn't believe how incredible the music was - I didn't have the foggiest idea that music could even be that good. And the roaring timpani certainly satiated my "hard rock" tendencies.

Actually, it took at least 10 listens before I could let the tape run past the opening - like a drug addict, I needed that timpani, and the soaring violins many times before I would accept any pianissimos.

Funny, but I started getting frustrated in that "where were the trombone parts?" What I learned, which would become my reality later in life, that the bones were tacet for the first 3 movements! Arg...I love playing trombone, but this part kinda sucks.

Scott

Ha, I love this story! It makes me get over any prejudice I might hold against you for being one of those "Brahms-1-is-the-best" types. I alternate between 2 and 3, depending on my mood. 4 is also good for the fall weather.

I wanted to add that, ironically, the first symphony that I sat down and actively listened to was Tchaik 5. (Note for those who don't know me: I went through a stage where I was all into Brahms and hated Tchaik, and am still getting over it now.) I think I was 12 when I heard this symphony. I was terrified because I was being taken to a concert at the Symphony Orchestra downtown, and I would have to sit quietly for what -- 40 minutes of this piece!?? "How am I going to stay awake!??"

But once it started, I was interested...intrigued by the martial theme, and I even enjoyed the SLOW MOVEMENT! And I still enjoy it today, possibly my favorite Tchaik symphony.

[Despina41]

Originally Posted by Tarantella

Once again I rise from my attempts at sleep - it's 11.15pm - with I-Pod trained on Brahms 4th Symphony. It's the Kleiber/VPO version. (The Adonis of the Antipodes who sleeps next to me is blissfully unaware!!) This symphony - the first movement, particularly the last 2 minutes: I was thinking of a high-powered car driving flat out up a hill in 3rd, then 4th gear. It reaches the top and the road becomes flat and the car goes into over-drive - wind blows the hair from the BMW convertible and the view is overwhelming up there on the top of the hill. This is Brahms' climactic ending of the first movement. Sheer exhilaration!! No Tour de France for this baby tonight!!

Friend and I were just going on a survey of Brahms4s on YT the other day. He loves the Kleiber, and I don't know what I love. I enjoy Furtwängler, Celibidache and Kleiber, but I feel like it's comparing apples and oranges. Celi seems to take the long line approach; Kleiber goes for the rhythmic vitality in the first mvt:








am undecided.

[Tarantella]

For me, the Kleiber recording (though early digital and somewhat 'dry') has incandescent playing from the VPO and an electricity and energy I haven't heard in other performances. I love all the Brahms symphonies, dearly, and have waxed and waned between faves, but it must be 4 for me now. I love that opening to the 1st which Scott has discussed. The 'timps', so ominous yet majestic and we are surprised when the movement bursts into lyricism. And, of course, the chaconne of the last movement of the 4th!! I remember going through the score with the class in Musicology while the recording was playing, with Rex (our lecturer) talking us through it. Memorable.

And I love reading these anecdotes: keep them coming!!

[Balthazar]

I'll admit I'm no great fan of Brahms. Far and away my favorite Brahms is contained in the first two piano sonatas. His mature music has always seemed way too staid next to the spontaneity of Beethoven or the poetry of Schumann.

But I've always had a soft spot for the 3rd symphony, especially its lyrical, involving slow movement.

[Despina41]

Originally Posted by Balthazar

I'll admit I'm no great fan of Brahms. Far and away my favorite Brahms is contained in the first two piano sonatas. His mature music has always seemed way too staid next to the spontaneity of Beethoven or the poetry of Schumann.

I have a good friend who feels this way. He's into post 1950s jazz and 20th-c music, and Brahms is just too boring and too self-conscious. I love his reaction, "I hear your 2 vs. 3, Brahms, so what!?"

[Scott Good]

Originally Posted by Balthazar

But I've always had a soft spot for the 3rd symphony, especially its lyrical, involving slow movement.

Ha! We found a chink in his armor!

Intermezzos? Here's one you might enjoy - kinda psychedelic with those descending thirds going a little further than they should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOvOqLqCkM