Liszt Sonata in B Minor

[Despina41]

I was surprised that my searches yielded no thread devoted entirely to the Liszt Sonata here.

Has anyone studied it? Herz, I am looking at you. Apparently one of Liszt's most innovative pieces, it combines the traditional three-movement sonata into one long 30-minute movement while still maintaining an overarching sonata form.

I still think the coolest part is the thematic transformation; and by "cool," I mean "for once the special musical effects that are often so empty in Liszt work beautifully here." The themes in their various guises are so dramatic. At least in the right performer's hands...

It is a piece often beaten to death in competitions. But when you hear a Richter play it (--I was going to add, "or a ..., no, that's unnecessary after Richter"), it's quite the epic masterpiece.

[Herzeleide]

Originally Posted by Despina41

I was surprised that my searches yielded no thread devoted entirely to the Liszt Sonata here.

Has anyone studied it? Herz, I am looking at you. Apparently one of Liszt's most innovative pieces, it combines the traditional three-movement sonata into one long 30-minute movement while still maintaining an overarching sonata form.

I still think the coolest part is the thematic transformation; and by "cool," I mean "for once the special musical effects that are often so empty in Liszt work beautifully here." The themes in their various guises are so dramatic. At least in the right performer's hands...

It is a piece often beaten to death in competitions. But when you hear a Richter play it (--I was going to add, "or a ..., no, that's unnecessary after Richter"), it's quite the epic masterpiece.

It certainly is an awesome piece, certainly one of my favourite pieces by anyone; there have been times when the climax has been too much for me.

Regarding its form, while I don't have any trouble seeing it as a sonata form piece, I find the idea that the various movements are integrated into that a bit harder to perceive - perhaps because it only works if you see it as heavily cyclical i.e. with the same themes recurring in transformed and combined forms across the movements. Really, I hear it as a cross between a fantasia and sonata.

Its ideas are superb and harmonies beautiful and colourful. The chromatic, daring harmony along with an Italiante lyricism and elements that I've read are taken from French grand opera are just one of its many strengths.

I'll post more and listen to the Richter when I've given myself more time!

[Herzeleide]

So, like I was saying, it's a great piece. Not only are the ideas great, arresting and moving to begin with, but their meaning and affect seem to accrue with each transformed appearance, whether it's ideas that are reharmonised, chords that are revoiced, registral changes (e.g. a melody that once appeared in the top voice next time appears in the middle, divided between hands amidst arpeggios) new figuration or/and accompaniment that borrows aspects from different themes. I also notice a registral expansion in both directions as the piece progresses, reminiscent of late Beethoven. It also demonstrates great dramatic nous. It's no wonder Wagner adored this piece - many of the forgoing techniques Wagner would go on to make his own (half a decade later Wagner would also finally catch up with Liszt in advanced chromatic harmony). It's also no wonder that several programs have been suggested about the piece - Faust, Milton's Paradise Lost or a character portrait of Liszt himself. And the harmonies still sound, in the right hands, exotic and pungent today.

I'm liking the Richter - quicker tempo than I'm used to, but no compromise to the clarity even in loud, fast passages that have a pleasingly sinister feeling about them. Very expressive indeed (FWIW I'm approaching the Bénédiction de Dieu quote in the F# major slow 'movement').

I have this -



The sound quality is absolutely perfect - wonderful acoustic quality, pleasingly resonant and 'liquidy' but also great, sparkling clarity. Truly orchestral. The performance is very very nearly as great as the recording - he has more than enough technique, great clarity and phrasing and expressive understanding. The only thing is that he rushes the chromatically descending octaves at the end of the Prestissimo climax - it's really quite a shame, if he had held back just a fraction it would have been perfect.

I also have Pletnev's recording - I had someone transfer it onto a CD after I'd taken it out from the library but now I can't find that copy. I liked that too.

I have this poster on my wall which I bought from Weimar -

[Joe Townley]

Very difficult piece to learn but well worth the effort

[Phrygian]

Originally Posted by Herzeleide

So, like I was saying, it's a great piece. Not only are the ideas great, arresting and moving to begin with, but their meaning and affect seem to accrue with each transformed appearance, whether it's ideas that are reharmonised, chords that are revoiced, registral changes (e.g. a melody that once appeared in the top voice next time appears in the middle, divided between hands amidst arpeggios) new figuration or/and accompaniment that borrows aspects from different themes. I also notice a registral expansion in both directions as the piece progresses, reminiscent of late Beethoven. It also demonstrates great dramatic nous. It's no wonder Wagner adored this piece - many of the forgoing techniques Wagner would go on to make his own (half a decade later Wagner would also finally catch up with Liszt in advanced chromatic harmony). It's also no wonder that several programs have been suggested about the piece - Faust, Milton's Paradise Lost or a character portrait of Liszt himself. And the harmonies still sound, in the right hands, exotic and pungent today.

I'm liking the Richter - quicker tempo than I'm used to, but no compromise to the clarity even in loud, fast passages that have a pleasingly sinister feeling about them. Very expressive indeed (FWIW I'm approaching the Bénédiction de Dieu quote in the F# major slow 'movement').

I have this -



The sound quality is absolutely perfect - wonderful acoustic quality, pleasingly resonant and 'liquidy' but also great, sparkling clarity. Truly orchestral. The performance is very very nearly as great as the recording - he has more than enough technique, great clarity and phrasing and expressive understanding. The only thing is that he rushes the chromatically descending octaves at the end of the Prestissimo climax - it's really quite a shame, if he had held back just a fraction it would have been perfect.

I also have Pletnev's recording - I had someone transfer it onto a CD after I'd taken it out from the library but now I can't find that copy. I liked that too.

I have this poster on my wall which I bought from Weimar -

I've just come across these comments and I must say how impressed I am by the level of literary dexterity which is to be read in abundance . I found this beautiful, knowledgeable and moving as a response to a great, great masterwork of music. I've read it to my husband just now and he's a latter-day Liszt enthusiast. Every now and again these kinds of written jewels appear on a messageboard and I'm glad I took the trouble and discovered this one today.

(And THIS is the very thing which keeps me coming back to music message-boards again and again, despite some problems with the types of people one finds on the internet and the inevitable time-waste which they very often become!!)