Beethoven's "Hammerklavier"

[Noseeum]

Originally Posted by Tarantella

If love is the answer, what is the question? (Or, as a Minister in our national parliament always says, "qwesh-un". He's in our 'feral gumment")

In this case the question is o you love your work?

[Tarantella]

All this has somehow strayed off my particular interest which is, of course, Beethoven's great piano sonatas. It is wonderful to have my musical colleagues/friends, mentioned previously, who have the knowledge of music and the intelligence to be able to use language in all its subtleties. Just to be clear, my friend wasn't slam-dunking me with his comment about "aesthetic liberation", merely telling me my Beethoven question was beyond him (for the moment) and it was also a hint about his upcoming seminar. Far from not caring about my original question, they both relish intellectual discussion as I do. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the dear man hasn't got some considered response ready for me on Thursday, or anytime.

Back to Opus 109. There's a tranquility in the Adagio sections, as there is in all the Adagio movements in these late works. After the drama of the Adagio espressivo of the first movement, we get Andante molto cantabile constructed of a simple 5-note phrase and upon this is built a set of variations. There's a kind of 'space' here. I have the score in front of me and I always think of the universe and solar system when hearing this particular movement - stars and disembodied entities floating through space but shining, dazzling. In short, it looks outward but inspired by the most inward of thoughts and, therefore, it powerfully reminds me of the poem by Ted Hughes, "The Jaguar" - Beethoven was, of course, a 'prisoner' of deafness. (What Beethoven writes in these last works is also reminiscent of Blake's "fearful symmetry".) Hughes' poem says of the caged Jaguar:

He spins from the bars, but there's no cage to him...
His stride is wildernesses of freedom

Those ecstatic and elegant final notes of the sonata - Beethoven has been into 'space' and finds beauty and acceptance there. These are all my awkward attempts to grapple with Opus 109 and all the late works. I also very much like the description of a "volcano" - yes, simmering underneath is that energy and potential which often 'erupts' on the surface.

[haydnguy]

Originally Posted by Tarantella

All this has somehow strayed off my particular interest which is, of course, Beethoven's great piano sonatas. It is wonderful to have my musical colleagues/friends, mentioned previously, who have the knowledge of music and the intelligence to be able to use language in all its subtleties. Just to be clear, my friend wasn't slam-dunking me with his comment about "aesthetic liberation", merely telling me my Beethoven question was beyond him (for the moment) and it was also a hint about his upcoming seminar. Far from not caring about my original question, they both relish intellectual discussion as I do. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the dear man hasn't got some considered response ready for me on Thursday, or anytime.

Back to Opus 109. There's a tranquility in the Adagio sections, as there is in all the Adagio movements in these late works. After the drama of the Adagio espressivo of the first movement, we get Andante molto cantabile constructed of a simple 5-note phrase and upon this is built a set of variations. There's a kind of 'space' here. I have the score in front of me and I always think of the universe and solar system when hearing this particular movement - stars and disembodied entities floating through space but shining, dazzling. In short, it looks outward but inspired by the most inward of thoughts and, therefore, it powerfully reminds me of the poem by Ted Hughes, "The Jaguar" - Beethoven was, of course, a 'prisoner' of deafness. (What Beethoven writes in these last works is also reminiscent of Blake's "fearful symmetry".) Hughes' poem says of the caged Jaguar:

He spins from the bars, but there's no cage to him...
His stride is wildernesses of freedom

Those ecstatic and elegant final notes of the sonata - Beethoven has been into 'space' and finds beauty and acceptance there. These are all my awkward attempts to grapple with Opus 109 and all the late works. I also very much like the description of a "volcano" - yes, simmering underneath is that energy and potential which often 'erupts' on the surface.

Tarantella, I just looked back on this thread and it was exactly 3 months ago today that I promised you that I would listen to "Hammerklavier". I will tell you my poor excuse and reveal a very bad habit that I have.

When I looked in the CD sleeve that should have had Hammerklavier in it, I found something completely different. Yes, I tend to put CD's in the wrong cases. My only consolation is that it only affects me since my wife doesn't listen to classical music.

At any rate I will do so. I am also anxious to hear how your seminars are coming along. (I love seminars).

[Noseeum]

Originally Posted by haydnguy

[...]
At any rate I will do so. I am also anxious to hear how your seminars are coming along. (I love seminars).

I find that I am (almost) completely neutral about seminars. I'm fairly sure that I've never been to one - voluntarily or otherwise. I am slightly antagonistic, because of my impression that they involve too many people (more than 8 or so is too many).

[Tarantella]

I'd like to share this anecdote with you (and some people have heard it already, so avert your eyes..now!).

About 6 weeks ago at my Musical Appreciation lectures there was a confusion about the program and when I arrived the two conveners came over and said there was nothing prepared, due to a communication breakdown, and what would we do? One spoke to the audience and briefly explained the problem and then the three of us put our collective heads together (like a rugby scrum) and then headed upstairs to the conservatorium library to get some CDs. The 3 of us decided we would play (on CDs) the music we most appreciate, and then improvise with talking from there. The other two chose jazz and Debussy respectively and I chose Beethoven's "Hammerklavier", Adagio (played by Pollini). The other two presenters quickly became stuck and asked me to now talk about Beethoven (again), so I discussed the 'improvisational' effect which Beethoven achieves in the Adagio of Op. 106. I played the piece and all 35 of them sat attentively and listened for over 17 minutes. When it was finished I walked over to the CD player and just as I was pressing the "eject" button the audience broke into spontaneous applause. That has never happened before in these sessions in two years of my attending them - never.

They were responding to something in Beethoven's music, which quite a few of them wouldn't have heard before. I was so moved that I turned around and faced the audience with tears in my eyes and then went on to discuss aspects of Beethoven's music which would have been influenced by his deafness and life experiences. So, a spontaneous program was met with warmth and pleasure and a few people asked later, "please, can we do this again?". Yes, that was a buzz.

[haydnguy]

Originally Posted by Tarantella

I'd like to share this anecdote with you (and some people have heard it already, so avert your eyes..now!).

About 6 weeks ago at my Musical Appreciation lectures there was a confusion about the program and when I arrived the two conveners came over and said there was nothing prepared, due to a communication breakdown, and what would we do? One spoke to the audience and briefly explained the problem and then the three of us put our collective heads together (like a rugby scrum) and then headed upstairs to the conservatorium library to get some CDs. The 3 of us decided we would play (on CDs) the music we most appreciate, and then improvise with talking from there. The other two chose jazz and Debussy respectively and I chose Beethoven's "Hammerklavier", Adagio (played by Pollini). The other two presenters quickly became stuck and asked me to now talk about Beethoven (again), so I discussed the 'improvisational' effect which Beethoven achieves in the Adagio of Op. 106. I played the piece and all 35 of them sat attentively and listened for over 17 minutes. When it was finished I walked over to the CD player and just as I was pressing the "eject" button the audience broke into spontaneous applause. That has never happened before in these sessions in two years of my attending them - never.

They were responding to something in Beethoven's music, which quite a few of them wouldn't have heard before. I was so moved that I turned around and faced the audience with tears in my eyes and then went on to discuss aspects of Beethoven's music which would have been influenced by his deafness and life experiences. So, a spontaneous program was met with warmth and pleasure and a few people asked later, "please, can we do this again?". Yes, that was a buzz.

Tarentella, that's exactly what happened to me in my Music Appreciation course in college. I don't remember what the music was but the teacher told us a bit about what to listen for, and I was amazed because I know I would not have heard what he said if he hadn't told us. That made me want to know more about "classical music" in general. Everyone should have the opportunity to sit in on a course like that!!