Wagner Support Group - Help!

[Despina41]

Dear community,

It's my mission to learn Wagner's works (let's stick with the operas/music-dramas rather than prose works here) very well. As in, I can quote text and recall leitmotifs at will.

This requires hard work, and I'm not really a big fan of Wagner. This project would be much easier if I immediately loved everything I heard, but that's not the case.

In short,
I NEED HELP!!




My "15 minutes of Wagner a day" project has evolved past 15 minutes. I can sit down and listen to a whole hour without trying to kill myself now. This is good progress.
So far I have focused on the Ring, specifically Rheingold and Walküre. I feel pretty comfortable with the leitmotifs and the orchestral parts, but there are whole swaths of text/music (ie Rheingold scene 2) that just seem impossible to put into my memory. It takes a lot of time and concentration to stare at the libretto, or a youtube video, and try to learn the text and music.

Anyway, I need any help I can get. People who have insight into Wagner, please help! I'm working on Siegfried now, in addition to going back and reviewing the other two. Anything to get me thinking about this - post your favorite videos or sound clips, your favorite production that you saw - the worst production that you saw - best harmonic progression - fun Ring fan sites - your professors' insights into Wagner's profound use of thematic transformation .. or just pep talk/moral support.








Please, It's a cry for help.

[Mischa]

I recently started a campaign myself, bought yet two other Ring versions and read some books and additional materials about the Ring (this one is recommendable in my opinion:
[ame]http://www.amazon.de/review/product/3492226299/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_img?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1[/ame] : not too detailed, but a lot of insight in thematic material and backgrounds).

I read/played/learned/enjoyed a bit here: http://www.richard-wagner-werkstatt.com/

A site dedicated to Wagner and his works with a lot of great features like:

* the texts with the according different Leitmotive. Linked with a little analysis and links to other operas or parts where Wagner used them
* a database of video snippets, for instance of 135 Rheingold performances
* a Leitmotiv-database including a game feature
* a collection of helpful links

To be honest, I stopped my attempts to learn more about it, there's been an entire Ring here around the last weeks. Though I planned to go there, I didn't, I simply don't have the patience. I watched a lot of Wagner, I played some as well, but I used to be happy when it was over.

Still I think the Ring has overwhelmingly thrilling passages, some of the most stirring music I know. Call me Banause, but long story short (pun intended) - I shortened it and copied this version. Walkürchen (2 hours) - great!

[Herzeleide]

I once again must direct you to Sabor.

Stewart Spencer has also translated the Ring and put it in book form, along with essays: Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung: A Companion.

Having the libretto in book form is useful for annotations and a hell of a lot more pleasant to read.

Secondly, I believe music could be a useful aide mémoire for learning the text - I would suggest jotting down musical phrases as you hear them next to the libretto. Learning how the music is constructed will surely facilitate learning; it's mainly organised in periods and arch-forms, and then again in bar form (into Stollen - check out the lessons in Die Meistersinger!)

Good luck!

[Dame Hilda Tablet]

I direct you, with good humour, towards Anna Russell. Her very funny (but accurate) take on the Ring is well worth a listen to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Russell

[Alpha Centauri]

Get dvds of the operas. These days these are often cheaper than the audio cd set.

This music was not intended to be heard in abstract form

PS The best Wagnerian opera is Beethoven's FIDELIO

[Alpha Centauri]

PS I think it also makes sense to choose which works to begin with?

DIE FLIEGENDER HOLLAENDER is the best introduction to Wagner, I would say - an almost credible plot about real people (well, not very real, but at least they're not dwarves or dragons) and a fabulous score. And not too long Get the Bohm live Bayreuth recording, it's super

THE RING is probably next - but you can start with WALKURE if you want to omit RHEINGOLD... WALKURE has all of the best music in THE RING anyhow

PARSIFAL is extremely accessible if you can stomach the pious twaddle of the story-line. And you have good bladder-control to deal with the inordinate length of the material.

I find LOHENGRIN hard going. TANNHAUSER is strictly for recidivists and completists.

MEISTERSAENGER is a fine piece but not one that I would pick to start with.

RIENZI, despite its length, is one of my favourite works and I'd recommend it. It's almost always performed in a heavily cut version.. otherwise it would be about 5.5 hours long!

DIE FEEN & DAS LIEBESVERBOT are really only for completists - even hardened Wagnerians are ambivalent about them.

[Despina41]

Good to know that I'm going in RT's order. I have had Flying Dutchman for years now (I like it!), and am now working on the Ring. DVDs re not happening now bc I'm in Europe with an American computer.

However, youtube is always amusing, especially when the clips have Spanish subtitles.

"Notung! Notung! Espada feroz!"


I am also impressed with the amount of music in this clip. Is that a lamento bass? (I'm such a harpsichordist)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTd9yluoAQk&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTd9yluoAQk&feature=related[/ame]

And once again, Heinz Zednik manages to look lke a movie character here, this time Billy Crystal's character in Princess Bride:

[Alpha Centauri]

You might do better to save-up your 15-minute slots and have an hour's-worth (or ideally more) at the weekend? Wagner doesn't really "work" in 15-minute bursts.... in fact one of his greatest achievements was developing large-scale forms that weren't based on "numbers" as in Italian opera. Of course he is still doing that in RIENZI and HOLLAENDER, but by GOETTERDAEMERUNG he's been able to break with it almost completely

BTW RW himself was - surprisingly - quite an enthusiast for Italian bel canto opera and greatly respected its composers... he had earned cash as a sideline in his youth by making the piano-score reductions of Bellini's operas for German publishers. They're still in use today (Schirmer Edition).

[Despina41]

As Mischa pointed out, this website is great, because there is nothing like a BIG RED FROWNY FACE to tell me that I have matched the wrong quote with the wrong opera:


http://www.richard-wagner-werkstatt.com/texte/

Go to Anwendung on the left, then to QUIZ!!!

[Despina41]

So if I listen to it like a sung-play with incidental music, then it's not so taxing.

Like this scene - that would be some great music added to a play. The Fafner/Wurm motive entrance beneath the horn is awesome. It always reminds me of my grumbling stomach when I'm hungry. "Grhhhaaaaaagghhhh!!!!"

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS0bwKkXwEU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS0bwKkXwEU&feature=related[/ame]

PS: Siegfried Jerusalem is doing pretty well here for being like, 50.