Classical music and the new middle class - Brightcecilia feature

[Philidor]

... a re-organised and re-branded live classical music culture doesn't need to be dumbed down. Current high standards of repertoire and performance can be maintained - just like Tate Modern - but the audience treated with respect. In a nutshell, the music should serve the audience, not the other way round. The modern concert-goer should be excited, moved, startled and educated, but not treated like slaves, fools, or as members of a religious cult for the wealthy, conservative and ancient.

Classical music and the new middle class

[marquis66]

I agree whole-heartedly.

However, I can see how there would be some discussion about what would constitute a dumbing down of the culture.

[Herzeleide]

Excellent article.

Originally Posted by marquis66

However, I can see how there would be some discussion about what would constitute a dumbing down of the culture.

I'm sure playing rock music at a classical music concert undoubtedly would constitute 'dumbing down'.

[haydnguy]

Yeah, I've already seen it happening. I am definitely not in favor of this "crossover" stuff because it will be the classical music that gets "dumbed down".

[baroquepop]

Culturally hungry middle classes? If only!

It may seem an obvious thing to say... the music is the best thing about classical concerts. Practically everything else needs updating. Purists look away now....

1. What is it with the black and white, and bow ties, which are neither modern nor of the period of the music? Each orchestra could have it's own style, team colours if you like.

2. Let the conductor talk about the music between pieces. Stimulate and inform us. Perhaps even announce the name of the soloist?

3. For bigger halls, better lighting, or perhaps even a large screen to spotlight soloists.

[Scott Good]

"First, it's wrong to trap people in concert halls. Currently it happens all the time. People buy tickets to hear a particular piece and must sit through other items in the programme. Some dreadful noise (to them) starts up, they look at their watches and inwardly groan: 'I've got to sit through this for fifteen minutes.'"

(Perhaps Herz doesn't realize that you are discussing the music he would like to see on programs. Young composers or the likes of Birtwistle or...Maybe if he understood this he wouldn't be so supportive of your thesis.)

But, on to this important point. Phil, I agree with you about this problem, and it's a biggie. (nice little thesis btw) Many orchestras have faced attendance problems because of this. Simply put, there is a large segment of the present concert going audience that wants only to hear the classics, and nothing composed in the past 50 years or so. (or 100 years...)

And although my experience is mostly with Canadian and American groups, by most accounts it seems that the same issues are appearing over seas.

There has been an underlying culture amongst classical musicians, and in particular composers, who want to believe that if we just present more new music, and mix it with classics, the audiences will get acclimatized. However, many of the results of these experiments have proved disastrous. You would not believe how difficult it is to sell modern music. I have discussed this issue quite extensively with orchestra managers and marketers. Simply put, the majority of subscribers will seek out the series with the most classic hits, and least modern music. It is so bad that during a programming committee meeting, it was revealed that even Beethoven 9 with 2 huge choirs and international soloists would not be enough to sell out the concert if there was modern music on the show - some people would not come if there was a 15min modern piece...this was one of the most disheartening programming experiences I have faced.
So, seems to be, take out the unfamiliar, and more people come. This, btw, includes works such as Beethoven 4 (which is a great piece!) and even composers such as Shostakovitch, so, not just a problem of modern music. This is not part of ideology, just economics.

Especially offended are the types you are describing. The "professional" people want satisfaction now - they want their ipods loaded with their favourites. They worked hard all week, so, they want to be entertained. (yes, of course i am generalizing)
This is why art galleries work so much better. Don't like what you see, just turn slightly to the right, or walk a few feet to another room, and you can engage with a very different experience. Something you don't like can be escaped with ease - not so in a concert.

So, the best ways forward as I see it is to 1) diversify the concert experience and/or 2) build up a very trusting relationship with the music director. I am not more or less in favour of either of these ideas, but the first is more reliable. What it means simply is to have different series catering to different tastes - a classical hits series, a pops series, a mixed series, kids concerts, and a new music series etc etc. Added to this are concert specials, where misguided post modern losers can put on projects like "Orlac's hands" for a Halloween concert, mixing improvisation and classical orchestra with silent film. Or, like a nifty group from New York, mixing rock with modern music - http://www.electrickompany.com/. No, one should avoid putting this on a traditional concert with Brahms 2. But a unique, one off show...I can't see why not. One must always realize that an orchestra has a duty to it's performers to provide work to add up to a sustainable living wage. Ticket sales are an essential element, and pops concerts have been very good at filling the spaces in the contract. Ideally one wants every concert sold out, but this requires a more diverse audience and therefore diverse repertoire.

So, Haydnguy and Herz don't have to attend a concert that has elements of rock, nor be subjected to it on the main series. But might I suggest that there are a few people who might enjoy an exploration into these diverse fields, and, if done well, might come again. This would be good as all of those performers would gain employment + living composers will have another outlet to share their work.

Also, does every orchestra have to do everything? I love that in Toronto there is an orchestra devoted to playing nothing but the music of living composers (esprithttp://www.espritorchestra.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemi d=32). (An orchestra built by a composer I might add. ) The audience has some overlap with the traditional ensembles, such as the Toronto Symphony, Canadian Opera company etc, but not too many. Esprit's audience is not really in direct competition with the TSO, even though they could be labelled under the same genre of "classical". This freed up the TSO to have their "New Creations Festival", which, surprisingly, often features composers such as Messiaen and Xenakis. So, old new music - something that is very neglected, at least it is around these parts. But it is music generally not played by Esprit.

But, they often sell out. Audiences are thrilled by the experience. This is good.

The second idea is more nuanced, but has been shown to be quite successful in LA. There, Salonen carefully picked (and I hear he was quite insistent) composer whom he felt he could grow his audience around - and it worked. Tickets sell like hot cakes. Imagine that this orchestra can close it's main series season with a newly commissioned work only (past season)! Or a large work by a living composer of another country (this season)!

To undertake these kinds of risky programming decisions, one has to have a very trusting relationship between audience and director. The kind of relationship that is nurtured over years with consistent excellence and vision (key word) in modern programming decisions. Orchestras should take the time to see what is working with other groups, to help inform them of future decisions. And might I suggest that composers well versed in the repertoire and the sensitivities of the audience could provide help with these matters.

Issues like this are different for chamber ensembles and opera companies. But, I've said too much already.

Btw, I don't see the relationship as music for audience vs. audience for music - they are there for each other.

[Herzeleide]

Originally Posted by Scott Good

(Perhaps Herz doesn't realize that you are discussing the music he would like to see on programs. Young composers or the likes of Birtwistle or...Maybe if he understood this he wouldn't be so supportive of your thesis.)

Perhaps Scott doesn't realise that the point being made was that people shouldn't be prevented from walking in and out of concerts. Maybe if he understood this he wouldn't come out with arrant twaddle.

[Philidor]

I suspect a major problem is that directors of the big orchestras - multimillion $/£/Euro enterprises with wildly expensive infrastructure and running costs - are terrified of doing anything which might interrupt their income stream. They'd love their seats filled by the new middle class, but stick with rich oldies on the basis of one grey-haired bird in the hand being worth two trendy thirty-somethings in the bush.

Perhaps chamber ensembles could afford to be less cautious? They're cheaper, more flexible and can move quickly: like speed boats as opposed orchestral oil tankers. So if there's to be a major cultural shift to attract new audiences maybe chamber groups will provide the shock troops.

Excuse the mixed metaphors.

[marquis66]

Originally Posted by Herzeleide

I'm sure playing rock music at a classical music concert undoubtedly would constitute 'dumbing down'.

There's a shocker.

[Scott Good]

Originally Posted by Herzeleide

Perhaps Scott doesn't realise that the point being made was that people shouldn't be prevented from walking in and out of concerts. Maybe if he understood this he wouldn't come out with arrant twaddle.

Well, that is part of the point. But if someone pays for a concert, and they only like half of it, they are not happy customers. They don't come back.

But, people can and do walk out - there is no rule that says one cannot. But, it is a courtesy to try to not do this - one that I am much in favor of.