Amazonfail: don't buy from Amazon this Christmas

[Philidor]

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

The topic of Amazon treating their workers like crap isn't a topic most people really care about.

Hmmm I wonder if that's true. The British have always been keen on 'fair play' and enjoy rooting for the underdog. It's an aspect of British bloody-mindedness, if you like, and applies across the political spectrum, from crusty right-wingers to wild-eyed Trots.

What Amazon does to its workers isn't fair. It's that simple. They're behaving badly to stuff their pockets and deserve a kick in the bum. Having looked at the facts, many people would agree.

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

You can't stop Amazon

Yes you can! I used to make a living negotiating on behalf of trade unions and was involved in several recognition battles. I know how employers behave in these circumstances. I also know how to beat them. Amazon would be a hard nut to crack but is beatable.

In the end it boils down to the bravery of the Amazon workers at an individual warehouse who decide to dig in their heals and fight, and the support they receive from the local and wider community. It's hard for low paid, often temporary, workers to take on a powerful multinational and win. But it can be done. I've seen it done. To claim "You can't stop Amazon" is simply wrong. It's factually incorrect and is exactly the sort of untrue propaganda Amazon would wish to see sprayed about cyberspace.

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

coming to BrightCecilia to complain about it isn't going to do anything anyway.

Brightcecilia's exactly the place to talk about it. Brightcecilia members buy a lot of Amazon product. As a minimum they should know how the workers are treated - why the product is so cheap - so they can make an informed choice when clicking the 'buy' button. Isn't it always better to be informed as opposed to ignorant?

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

My question to you people who are complaining: when does the crying stop?

When Amazon workers are treated by their employer with respect.

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

The bottom line is simple: none of you are going to do anything about this because none of you want to do anything about this. Like everybody else, you just want to complain about it.

Sure, I want to complain about it. I'll continue to complain about employers like Amazon until my dying day to anyone who'll listen! But I'd also like to do something about it, and have a record of doing something about employers like Amazon.

The first thing to do is publicise Amazon's conduct. As this thread shows, and the responses on Twitter, many people are unaware that Amazon management behave so badly.

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

Yeah it is a bit strong, but I'm an American (of German ancestry), so excuse my very direct nature.

I celebrate your direct nature. I just didn't like seeing nice DJ Fatuus told to shut his gob. Not least because this is a discussion forum so people must be encouraged to have permanently open gobs.

[Mirror Image]

Originally Posted by marquis66

Hey now, don't lump all of us Americans in with you. There is a such thing as civility, even on the internet.

Frankly, I think that BC is the place to have a discussion like this, because we are all consumers. You don't care about the workers? Fine. A lot of us do. If you don't want to have the discussion, don't participate in it. I find it pretty hypocritical for you to contribute, and then complain that other people contribute when they disagree with you.

And yet you do nothing about it and continue to talk in circles until you're blue in the face. Is it time to change your diaper? You done crying like a little baby? I mean this what you sound like anyway.

[Stlukesguild]

I think the valid question that MI raises is to ask how many of us are willing to pay considerably more money not only for our music... but also for our clothing, our food, our computers, and just about damned near everything in order that we may be certain that no one is working in a low-paying job without benefits?

[Mirror Image]

Originally Posted by Philidor

Hmmm I wonder if that's true. The British have always been keen on 'fair play' and enjoy rooting for the underdog. It's an aspect of British bloody-mindedness, if you like, and applies across the political spectrum, from crusty right-wingers to wild-eyed Trots.

What Amazon does to its workers isn't fair. It's that simple. They're behaving badly to stuff their pockets and deserve a kick in the bum. Having looked at the facts, many people would agree.

Yes you can! I used to make a living negotiating on behalf of trade unions and was involved in several recognition battles. I know how employers behave in these circumstances. I also know how to beat them. Amazon would be a hard nut to crack but is beatable.

In the end it boils down to the bravery of the Amazon workers at an individual warehouse who decide to dig in their heals and fight, and the support they receive from the local and wider community. It's hard for low paid, often temporary, workers to take on a powerful multinational and win. But it can be done. I've seen it done. To claim "You can't stop Amazon" is simply wrong. It's factually incorrect and is exactly the sort of untrue propaganda Amazon would wish to see sprayed about cyberspace.

Brightcecilia's exactly the place to talk about it. Brightcecilia members buy a lot of Amazon product. As a minimum they should know how the workers are treated - why the product is so cheap - so they can make an informed choice when clicking the 'buy' button. Isn't it always better to be informed as opposed to ignorant?

When Amazon workers are treated by their employer with respect.

Sure, I want to complain about it. I'll continue to complain about employers like Amazon until my dying day to anyone who'll listen! But I'd also like to do something about it, and have a record of doing something about employers like Amazon.

The first thing to do is publicise Amazon's conduct. As this thread shows, and the responses on Twitter, many people are unaware that Amazon management behave so badly.

I celebrate your direct nature. I just didn't like seeing nice DJ Fatuus told to shut his gob. Not least because this is a discussion forum so people must have permanently open gobs.

Philidor you're doing nothing about this. You may have a history with unions, notice the key word: history. Have you emailed Amazon? What have you done to stop their behavior?

Like I said, you want to complain about it, but yet you do nothing. A thread like this won't stop their behavior. I mean how many people actually come to this website anyway and actually participate in one of the discussions? Not that many. I'm was one of the most prolific members on TalkClassical.

TalkClassical gets much more traffic than this forum. I hate TalkClassical with a passion, but they do have more members and also better discussions.

[marquis66]

Decaff, man. Decaff. The spring sounds like it is wrapped a little tightly.

[Mirror Image]

Originally Posted by Stlukesguild

I think the valid question that MI raises is to ask how many of us are willing to pay considerably more money not only for our music... but also for our clothing, our food, our computers, and just about damned near everything in order that we may be certain that no one is working in a low-paying job without benefits?

Yes, that's an excellent question, Stlukes. I'm definitely not paying $16 for a CD.

[micrologus]

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

Yes, that's an excellent question, Stlukes. I'm definitely not paying $16 for a CD.

Well, I do! But of course I don't buy as many CD's as you do in such a short time.
I also prefer to listen to the CD before buying it and I like to compare different performances. I usualy buy my cd's in a specialised music shop in Brussels (about 120 km from where I live) or in Bruges (55 km from home). I also look for CD's when I'm abroad, or after attending a concert.

[micrologus]

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

Yeah it is a bit strong, but I'm an American (of German ancestry), so excuse my very direct nature.

I'm glad not all Americans are like you and please, don't fall back on your ancestry.

[micrologus]

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

I buy from Amazon almost on a weekly basis. Do I really care what their workers have to go through? Not really.

I think that 'solidarity' is a word that does not appear in your dictionnary.

[Philidor]

Originally Posted by Stlukesguild

I think the valid question that MI raises is to ask how many of us are willing to pay considerably more money not only for our music... but also for our clothing, our food, our computers, and just about damned near everything in order that we may be certain that no one is working in a low-paying job without benefits?

Just taking Amazon, it wouldn't necessarily be 'considerably more.' You'd need to look at profits, investment plans, how much they pay their shareholders, and balance the wage claim against that. That's what unions do all the time: you send in the labour lawyers and accountants and base your wage claim on their findings.

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

Have you emailed Amazon?

Emailing Amazon wouldn't do much good, unless part of an organised campaign. I'd happily participate in that. But they'd need a full inbox and the campaign should come from Amazon workers themselves. All people can do on the outside is publicise, support and boycott.

If Amazon workers were taking industrial action it might be possible to get postal workers to black Amazon deliveries, which would be a powerful weapon. But secondary action's illegal in Britain now. German and French workers still do it.

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

What have you done to stop their behavior?

Like I said, you want to complain about it, but yet you do nothing. A thread like this won't stop their behavior. I mean how many people actually come to this website anyway and actually participate in one of the discussions? Not that many. I'm was one of the most prolific members on TalkClassical.

TalkClassical gets much more traffic than this forum. I hate TalkClassical with a passion, but they do have more members and also better discussions.

Publicity's important. Every very little helps. It would be great if a similar thread ran on TC. Here's one on R3OK. TC should get their act together. Every classical music forum should carry a 'Don't buy from Amazon' thread.