US Symphonists of the mid-20th Century

[Balthazar]

It's a shame that there's such a blind spot these days about American symphonic composers of the mid-20th century. It seems after Ives and Copland, no one remembers what happened in serious music in America.

Walter Piston (1894-1976) was a teacher and influence for many younger composers, and his symphonies were very classically-contructed.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMGvPMEXE7E]Piston: Symphony #6, 1st mvmt.[/ame]

Roy Harris (1898-1979) is only known today for his Third Symphony, but his body of orchestral work was characterized by eccentricity and eloquence.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukHIxACknjw"]Harris: Symphony #3, Part I[/ame]

William Schumann (1910-1992) was a composer, teacher and administrator at Juillard and Lincoln Center whose works were full of originality and humor.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pl-jsrj1rM"]Schumann: Symphony #7: 1st mvmt.[/ame]

Towering above them all was Roger Sessions (1896-1985), a phenomenal composer whose works were always pioneering, comprehensible, and emotional.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDIr94Rg1tw&feature=PlayList&p=15D462830F4 226C0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2"]Sessions: Symphony #3, 1st mvmt.[/ame]

[Mirror Image]

In my honest opinion, I believe that David Diamond was the finest American composer after Copland, Barber, and Ives. Diamond's music is always dynamic, lyrical, and emotional. He is never given enough credit here in American or abroad. Piston, Creston, and Rorem also wrote some great symphonies, but I don't think they match Diamond's lyricism.

[marquis66]

I found Diamond last year, and found his work very emotionally appealing and exciting. My old mentor and I would discuss frequently whether a composer was "Good" or "Great", and as much as I like Diamond, having never heard of him for all these years, I don't think that he would have made the "Great" cut, over Schumann, Piston, etc. One of the fallback criteria was always if we didn't know when they lived, even approximately, they couldn't have been great.

[Balthazar]

Originally Posted by marquis66

I don't think that he would have made the "Great" cut, over Schumann, Piston, etc.

I agree. Diamond's music is pleasant but unexciting, and sometimes maudlin. I consider him and Rorem in the same league. But in the same league as Sessions? Not even close.

[Mirror Image]

Originally Posted by Balthazar

I agree. Diamond's music is pleasant but unexciting, and sometimes maudlin. I consider him and Rorem in the same league. But in the same league as Sessions? Not even close.

Sessions? Give me a break, Balthazar! Name one work by Sessions that's as grand as anything Barber, Piston, Ives, Diamond, or Copland wrote? Sessions was nothing more than an experimental composer unwilling to let his arcane, mad scientist guard down long enough to write anything that was emotionally appealing to people. Even Ives wrote beautiful music hence his first and second symphonies. Almost everything Sessions wrote was for academic circles, not listeners.

[Mirror Image]

Originally Posted by Balthazar

I agree. Diamond's music is pleasant but unexciting, and sometimes maudlin.

Did you even read what he wrote? He said he found Diamond's work emotional and exciting. That was the first sentence he wrote in his post. Go back and read it.

[marquis66]

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

Did you even read what he wrote? He said he found Diamond's work emotional and exciting. That was the first sentence he wrote in his post. Go back and read it.

Right. I really like his music, I just don't think that he was a great composer. There is a difference

[Mirror Image]

Originally Posted by marquis66

Right. I really like his music, I just don't think that he was a great composer. There is a difference

But you felt emotion and excitement from his works, so this alone, may not make him a "great" composer, but it makes him a memorable one and I think that in some small way is rewarding enough.

[Balthazar]

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

Sessions? Give me a break, Balthazar! Name one work by Sessions that's as grand as anything Barber, Piston, Ives, Diamond, or Copland wrote? Sessions was nothing more than an experimental composer unwilling to let his arcane, mad scientist guard down long enough to write anything that was emotionally appealing to people. Even Ives wrote beautiful music hence his first and second symphonies. Almost everything Sessions wrote was for academic circles, not listeners.

As we said in the 'Audiences hate modern classical music' thread, people seem to have no qualms whatsoever about making baseless pronouncements such as these about modern composers they've decided they hate. What would we think of someone making such weird blanket statements about Bach or Mozart? We'd mock their presumption. But when the subject is modern composers, the sky's the limit on uninformed hyperbole!

Look, if you don't like what little you've heard of Sessions, just say that. But dismissing Sessions as nothing more than an emotionally stunted purveyor of arcane, academic experiments is completely unwarranted.

With a modern composer such as Sessions, of course, a smart listener like Mirror Image has no need to actually hear his symphonies to be able to characterize them as bloodless failures devoid of emotional appeal. I've listened to them all many times. And to these ears, the symphonies of Sessions are full of power, beauty, intellect, and optimism. I'm not sure where in your evidently exhaustive reading of his essays you discovered that he didn't write for listeners. Everything I've ever read by or about him testifies to his wish for concert audiences to hear and appreciate his work.

And yes, Sessions did in fact compose a work every bit as grand as the creations of those other fine composers you mentioned. When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd is a vast cantata from Sessions' later period. Employing immense vocal, choral, and orchestral forces, this piece is one of the greatest works of the late 20th century. Now make sure you click on this link and listen to twenty seconds before you consider yourself expert enough to dismiss it as unlistenable.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzSgajYGB8I&feature=related"]Sessions: When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd pt. I[/ame]

Originally Posted by Mirror Image

But you felt emotion and excitement from his works, so this alone, may not make him a "great" composer, but it makes him a memorable one and I think that in some small way is rewarding enough.

And that wasn't the claim you originally made. What you said was that Diamond was the finest American composer after Copland, Barber, and Ives.

[marquis66]

Originally Posted by Balthazar

What would we think of someone making such weird blanket statements about Bach or Mozart? We'd mock their presumption.

I would be more than happy to debate whether Mozart was a great composer vs the subject of brilliant marketing. Wouldn't be the first time.