British folk!! Read, I have a question!

[Jeff]

Hello. I am curious, what is BBC Proms??

I ask because one of my favorite early musicians, Paul Hillier is performing in Prom 21 and directing a choir in Prom 36. What the heck is a Prom??

And, why are the tickets so awesomely cheap?!? Is this because high taxes=awesomeness in the arts, something I am unexposed to, mostly because the American people are largely ignorant and stubborn??

Btw, if any of you go to these "Proms," try and see Paul Hillier. Either the Theatre of Voices or The Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir.

[Philidor]

It's the biggest classical music festival in the world. From Wiki:

...the first Proms concert was held on 10 August 1895 in the Queen's Hall in Langham Place and was arranged by impressario Robert Newman. Newman's idea was to encourage an audience for concert hall music who, though not normally attending classical concerts, would be attracted by the low ticket prices and more informal atmosphere. In addition to promenading, eating, drinking and smoking were all allowed.* He stated his goal as follows:

"I am going to run nightly concerts and train the public by easy stages. Popular at first, gradually raising the standard until I have created a public for classical and modern music."

The BBC took over running them between the wars and they're now the jewel in the crown of BBC Radio 3, with each concert broadcast live. A thousand tickets each night are standing room only, or up in the balconies, cost £6 ($12) and can be bought only on the day so you can usually get in.

I don't know if they receive a tax subsidy. I suspect they do. But some tickets are expensive so maybe they subsidise the cheap ones? It would be a brave politician who tried to interfere with their funding. They're genuinely popular and the last night has sunk into national consciousness.

Don't you Americans enjoy cheap or free concerts associated with university campuses? So if you're a student or live near a university there is access to cheap music?

I'd like to read up more about the founder Newman and his first conductor Henry Wood - they sound an interesting pair. For example, during WWI the British developed a phobia towards all things German (ladies walking their Dachshunds were spat at) and they came under pressure to ban Bach and Beethoven. They refused, were reviled as traitors and lost a lot of money. Numerous references to Proms in literature e.g. the Beethoven scene in EM Forster's Howard's End.





Here's an example of how great they can be, when popular conductor and orchestra meet audience head on. Look at the pleasure on people's faces... and how scruffy they are.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_El7qwib0dc&feature=related"]YouTube - Orquesta Juvenil Simón BolÃ*var de Venezuela - BBC Proms 2007[/ame]




* Patrons were asked not to strike matches during vocal numbers

[Jeff]

Heh, I like how I can think up crazy questions in the middle of the night, and you can wake up in your morning and answer them before I go to sleep!!

Well, thats really cool! I'd love to come out for this sometime! I was checking out more concerts, and there is some GREAT stuff!! You guys are lucky, lol! As far as cheap concerts, they do exist at Universities, but not at this level.. Jordi Savall or John Eliot Gardnier do not come to Universities here for $10... And even still, education is incredibly expensive here, and the best you get for free or cheap is usually top notch graduate ensembles.
I know I seriously considered going to the Berkley Early Music Festival earlier this summer in California. Really only an 1 1/2 flight from me. But it was insanely expensive. The smaller concerts were all $20-$30, and a pass that cost money was required to see any lectures. The main events at the end ran as much as $50 and the premiere concert was $60 or $70. My point is, most of the early concerts probably weren't that great anyway... the whole thing was very expensive! And I didn't go because of it.
Jordi Savall is one of the worlds greatest Early musicians.. And its 10 pounds! John Elito Gardnier, only 15 pounds! Its incredible!

Needless to say, I am quite jealous. I would totally pay higher taxes for this..

Btw, what do taxes run out there right now? Am I mistaken, or are most things a flat tax?

[Jeff]

Oh, and I almost forgot..

Royal Albert Hall is BEAUTIFUL!!!!

[Philidor]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Btw, what do taxes run out there right now? Am I mistaken, or are most things a flat tax?

Most of Europe, around 45% - the state takes 45% of GDP. I believe in the US it's 25-30%. Anything above 30% is Godless Communism and gets the NRA polishing their rifles. That's why you've got no welfare state. The Scandinavian countries are even higher, but with low business tax: very high personal taxation, low business tax. Britain historically tends to tax slightly less than the rest of Europe, but even Thatcher only managed to get it down to c. 40% of GDP. Current UK personal tax rates:

0 - £34,800 ($70,000) - 20%

Over £34,800 - 40%

Plus vast amounts raised from local taxes and, as you say, flat rate taxes - fuel duty, alcohol, tobacco, TV license, VAT, etc.

The British are wildly schizophrenic about taxes. The usual desire not to pay them, distrust of politicians wasting the money, but a love of the national health service which sucks up much of the cash. It's near impossible to get elected as a national politician unless you promise not to take money away from the NHS.

[Jeff]

Ha, yeah... We really still hear those anti-commi sentiments every once in awhile... The generation in office grew up in the cold war, so... Yeah. Lol

As far as higher taxes, I am all for them if it helps me out! Funding arts and education is very important to me. I also would love a National Health Care system.. Are you satisfied with the healthcare you get for the taxes you pay?

[Philidor]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Are you satisfied with the healthcare you get for the taxes you pay?

I've not seen the inside of a hospital for a while, thank God, but was ill a few years back and the NHS saved my life. I've also been in a couple of car wrecks and they were great then too. The whole thing runs on goodwill, with people paid little and working long hours because they believe in it. It employs a million people. LOL

The way it started is impossibly romantic. The men were away fighting in WW2 and the Army Bureau of Current Affairs - a Communist penetrated organisation - pushed the Beveridge report* hard among the troops. So all over Europe in 1944, in lulls between battles, men sat beside their tanks in orchards and vinyards and debated the sort of society they wanted to come home to. Those who survived arrived back in 1945 and, together with the women who'd kept the factories and farms going, voted in the most radical socialist government Britain has seen, which founded the NHS in 1948. Why didn't GIs demand the same? More carefully protected from leftist propaganda? Fewer socialist organisers buzzing about? I bet they could have got it. Civilian governments are notoriously frightened of returning troops and are apt to give them whatever they want. Ironically it was US government money which founded the NHS, in the form of a whacking great loan negotiated by John Maynard Keynes just before he died.

The Army Bureau of Current Affairs, or ABCA, was an organisation set up to educate and raise morale amongst British servicemen in World War II.

ABCA issued pamphlets in units and promoted discussions, for instance about post-war reconstruction and the Beveridge report. It met with resistance from Winston Churchill, who felt it was a poor use of military time. The organisation is generally regarded as a factor in the landslide Labour Party victory in the post-war general election in 1945. ABCA organisers and teachers predominantly seem to have been left-wing, as were the soldiers who attended the classes, and classes became dominated by discussion of nationalisation and social justice. The service vote in the election that followed is said to have been the most dramatic reflection of the public mood, with as many as 80% of soldiers voting for the Labour Party according to some sources.

Wiki

* The report which founded the NHS, written by a Liberal Party bureaucrat, bits of which read like the Old Testament. It sought to banish the 'Five Giants' - Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness. Amazingly, much of the ideology has survived for 60 years. The political right hate it, but there's little they can do, except by stealth.

[haydnguy]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Ha, yeah... We really still hear those anti-commi sentiments every once in awhile... The generation in office grew up in the cold war, so... Yeah. Lol

Yeah, Jeff, but did you ever notice how they don't bat an eye about getting Medicare??? Talk about the height of hypocrisy.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by haydnguy

Yeah, Jeff, but did you ever notice how they don't bat an eye about getting Medicare??? Talk about the height of hypocrisy.

Ha, yes. This whole situation is one big tangle of ignorance and hypocrisy..

But regardless, I really want to go to Proms! Now that I know about this, I am defiantly going to try and plan a Proms trip across the pond one of these summers.

[maureen]

with my mom's medicare
she put in her 40 plus years
as a social worker, paralegal, mental health professional and finally at the bakery at Wal-mart (i won't mention her childhood on the family farm and store)
we had to fight with her for over a year (at 72) to get her to retire
if you get me voting between my mom's medicare and your arts
i vote for my mom