Good-bye, Capitalism?

[maureen]

we still have maine and if iceland wants to fight
i know some mushers who'll take it to em

seriously-the bailout is bunk

we're causing more problems than we're stopping and the massive redistribution of real estate to the revenuers...
uh i mean government is not a good thing

[Philidor]

[haydnguy]

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- In another attempt to loosen credit markets and restore confidence in the financial system, the Treasury Department is considering a plan to take ownership stakes in many U.S. banks, both healthy and troubled, according to a media report Wednesday night.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-may-take-ownership-stake/story.aspx?guid={0AB6EE9A-D3FA-497F-9568-EC03721A2E84}

[maureen]

WAKE UP

WHO OWNS AIG NOW?

WHO OWNS THE BANKS WE ARE BAILING OUT?

AND TREASURY WANTS A PIECE?

WAKE UP

HOW DO WE UNDO THIS DOWN THE ROAD?

SO...THE GOV WILL HOLD MY MONEY, AND THE NOTE ON MY HOUSE AND MY INS COVERAGE AND SET INTEREST RATES FOR THE BANKS THEY OWN? TALK ABOUT EFFECTIVELY QUASHING DISSENT

OH AND THEY PRINT MY MONEY
AND BRANSON OWNS GE OR SOMETHING
AND THE RUSSIANS BOUGHT ICELAND

WHAT DOES THE POPE THINK?

HOW ABOUT CHAVEZ?

PUTIN?

DID ANYONE CATCH THE WE HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTECT OUR INTERESTS IN GEORGIA COMMENT?

IS IT TOO LATE TO BUY INTEREST IN HALIBURTON?
CHENEY'S LAYING AWFULLY LOW DURING THIS ARE YOU SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER ELECTION



i'm beyond being able to make any rational comments, sorry

[Florestan]

It's a thorny problem. Either governments recapitalise the banks and then effectively underwrite them so they can start trading again, or they say 'no siree, you're on your own'.

Ironically, the former option is the one that best serves capitalism by getting the markets going again.

America is now paralysed by its own ideology. It can't take the best course of action for capitalism because, on the surface, the alternative looks like socialism - and Americans, after decades of free market ideology, won't like it one bit. In 'socialist' Britain, with its pinko welfare state, the government is not hampered from injecting liquidity into the markets.

So 'socialism' is now best for capitalism. Go figure.

[Philidor]

Originally Posted by Florestan

So 'socialism' is now best for capitalism. Go figure.

Ah, but an anarchist would argue that the state has always been capitalism's best friend, that capitalism always goes running to the state when the going gets tough. Isn't that more the problem in the US? As a nation it's packed with freedom-lovin anarchists with romantic ideas of watering the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots? Dislike and distrust of the federalised state is strong. So, according to the anarchist analysis, the average US citizen is an anti-capitalist because he's anti-state. Or, to put the problem another way, the average American doesn’t really understand capitalism: they don’t realise that for capitalism to function it needs a strong, interventionist state. Again, it’s a problem of romantic individualism: the belief that there really is such a thing as a free market. There isn't (as any clever capitalist will tell you).

[Florestan]

Originally Posted by maureen

OH AND THEY PRINT MY MONEY
AND BRANSON OWNS GE OR SOMETHING
AND THE RUSSIANS BOUGHT ICELAND

[Florestan]

At least the Hellograph has journalists old enough to make the connection:-

Iceland bank collapse: The history of the Cod War - financial crisis


Competition between the economies of Britain and Iceland led to diplomatic clashes, shots being fired and ships being holed during the three "Cod Wars" of the 20th century.


By Martin Beckford
Last Updated: 7:57PM BST 09 Oct 2008

Iceland's repeated expansion of its fishing grounds and its aggressive means of protecting its territory led to Royal Navy warships being deployed and the intervention of Nato, while the loss of the final war cost more than 1,000 British trawlermen and thousands more onshore their jobs.

The roots of the dispute stretch back to the Victorian era, when Iceland's then rulers, the Danes, set up an exclusion zone in the icy waters around the island to protect the fish stocks that were vital for its income and food supplies.

But the first Cod War began in earnest 50 years ago, in September 1958, when the Icelandic fishery grounds were enlarged from 4 nautical miles away from shore to 12.

Britain responded by deploying Royal Navy warships in the disputed waters to protect the country's trawlers and fishermen, and over the next three months Icelandic boats fired shots at, rammed and attempted to board British vessels.

The dispute rumbled on until March 1961, when Britain acknowledged the 12-mile zone, with Icelandic gunboats firing live shells to drive off British trawlers and confiscating their catches and gear if they were caught within it.

Amid growing concern about depleted stocks of fish, Iceland extended its fishing grounds to 50 miles in September 1972, with its coastguard cutting the trawling lines of vessels that strayed inside.

Once again, Royal Navy vessels were sent to protect British trawlers and the Secretary-General of Nato was sent to Reykjavik for talks to resolve the dispute.

Two months later, Britain agreed to limit its annual catch of fish within certain areas around Iceland to 130,000 tons.

However three years later, in November 1975, Iceland unilaterally attempted to expand its exclusion zone significantly to cover ocean 200 nautical miles from the coast.

Skirmishes between the two countries' vessels included several rammings and more shots being fired, and in one incident HMS Falmouth almost capsized an Icelandic ship that had been trying to cut the nets of a trawler.

However Britain was forced to back down and respect the 200-mile exclusion zone, after Iceland threatened to close a critical Nato base.

When the agreement ran out late in 1976, British trawlers were banned from Iceland's fishing zones, devastating the traditional fishing ports of Hull, Grimsby and Fleetwood.

By 2002, the UK Government had paid out £37million in compensation to more than 2,000 trawlermen who lost their livelihoods when the Icelandic fishing industry collapsed.

What you have to remember is that 200 nautical miles is very nearly in Scotland, the tip of which is only 300 land miles from Iceland.

Bastards!

[haydnguy]

Well, I understand what your saying and as far as it goes it's true, but I don't think your seeing the full picture of what's going on. Your still talking in terms of Britain does it this way, and the U.S. does it that way.

I think where we're headed is that in globalization your going to have a globalized "federal reserve" that monitors ALL banks in western countries and everything is coordinated on a global scale. Sort of like you saw this week in the "emergency measure". Someone will suggest that "maybe we need a coordinating body" or something along those lines. From there eventually you'll probably see other things happening but that's where it will start.

A friend and I used to say years ago, "I don't want to be President. I want to be Chairman of the Federal Reserve."

[maureen]